If you mean passengers with concealed carry permits then yes. The train would be safer. Just like every other place in the country that has lower violent crime rates with good concealed carry laws.

I would be much more likely to ride a train if I knew passengers had guns on board because I feel that most people are good honest people and the reason the U.S. has the highest crime rate is because we are too soft on crime. If a criminal knew that people had guns and were not afraid to use them then we would not have half the crime we do because the criminal would think twice before risking his life.

Don't they already?

With society's total lack of civility and tolerance, not to mention abject ignorance, are you kidding? It would be like stepping back into the Wild West. Open season on the Metro. Quick, somebody cue up "LA Story."

The public is just not responsible enough to carry guns. If everyone was packing heat it wouldn't take long before there were shootouts over whose ipod was too loud, who shouldn't be taking phone calls where, or who only did the knee-shift when letting you out of your seat.

I'm sure those second amendment extremists are already riding the trains.
Packing at least one gun.
That is, the men.

I think things would be safer if criminals did not know who was armed and would think twice before committing a crime if they feared for their life.
Anonymous @ 7:11 AM,
You are a real sexist, but I am sure you already know that.

I have riden on airplanes with people carrying guns other than the air marshal, so why not. As hard as many in this country find it to beleive, it is not the law abiding gun owners/carriers that people have to worry about. It is the criminals that will carry a firearm any place they can get away with it.

This is bcause Amtrack will allow guns that are checked, just like airlines.

So sure, but even if they were allowed on board I would. I feel safer knowing that people who are allowed to carry by law will do the right thing.

"I'm sure those second amendment extremists are already riding the trains."

Typical leftist antigun crap.

People who a re pro second amendment obey they law, we are not criminals, so if you cannot go there with a gun we do not. If we did we would lose our right to own and carry a gun.

Banning guns only effects law abiding people. Criminals break the law.

Ah, MildlyMisanthropic continues the ignorant mantra of the uneducated and frightened public who still do not acknowledge that the criminal element will get its guns regardless of the laws. All the people I know with concealed carry permits have had to demonstrate they are neither ignorant, uncivil nor intolerant; in fact, just the opposite. Even the GOVERNMENT'S OWN STUDIES have demonstrated a reduction in violent crime when a state allows concealed carry. An armed society is a polite society. Perhaps someday you may be able to cut the strings that continue to make you a government-operated puppet.

Law enforcement agents are already allowed free passes on MARC and VRE if they agree to be on duty during their commute.

Criminals already carry whatever they want whenever they want it.

My issue is not with either of them, really; it's with those "law abiding citizens" whose guns accidentally go off because they forget the safety or because they're just idiots. How many people do you hear having their kids being shot in their own homes because their parents have guns? I have no issue with that-- your gun in your home is your problem. I just don't want these people (the criminals *or* the idiots) near my kids on Metro.

"Guns don't kill people -- People with guns on trains kill people." Oooh, catchy!

Goodness, a question that actually has some bearing on most of us, instead of being the Express's usual effort to excite paroxysms of admiration for Mr. Obama! The answer is yes, because we have no real choice, but the idea of riding a train with gun-toters is no more reassuring than going to a restaurant or a theater (or a church, fer cryin' out loud!) with the same gun toters. Just remember, those of you reclining on your Second Amendment rights, that given the nature of Metro, those totin' pistols in their waistbands are more likely to be gang members than they are red-white-and-blue patriots....

From NY Times

"The Senate voted on Wednesday to allow Amtrak passengers to carry unloaded and locked handguns in checked baggage."

So this question is misleading

@ MildyMisanthropic -
Get over yourself, and all your visions of shootouts at the O.K. corral. Put it this way: there are some big bucks EACH YEAR to maintain a concealed permit. There are tests (based on locality) and investigations. Any permit holder that farts the wrong way gets the CCW revoked. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE that I would make that investment, just to throw it away over stupid crap. The CCW is for me, and my family ONLY. Frankly, I would love to off a few scumbags, but, the punks, AND YOU, are not worth me drawing my weapon, and then losing it forever in the investigation. Again, if my life is not in immediate danger, then the weapon remains holstered, out of sight. YOU (or, in other words, the undefended target) are on your own.

I've been a rider on Metro since the very beginning. Of course there are people on the trains with guns. Reality Check: These trains pass through D.C., Prince Georges, Montgomery and Fairfax Counties. What do you expect?

@ Technobill - doncha think any 'gun toter' wants to remain low? The legal ones just want to get to where they are going. The thug also wants little attention inside a public transit system that is full of video, riders with camera-equipped cell phones with 911 on speed-dial, riders who are wary after bombings, and a transit police force full of Dirty Harry wannabes. The legal and the thug carry a weapon for survival. Displaying a weapon doesn't allow either to remain unnoticed.

@ Anonymous , 8:11 AM

"the criminal element will get its guns regardless of the laws"

Of course, I would just like to limit the number of yahoos popping off rounds in public. What happens when the police arrive on the scene? How do they tell the good guys from the bad guys?

And then there is the assumption that only criminals make bad decisions. Good people make bad decisions all of the time. Think about people who decide to get behind the wheel after a few drinks. Are they bad people? Or are they everyday people who made a poor decisions. Add a gun into that equation and the risks go up exponentially. A verbal confrontation becomes assault with a deadly weapon, a fist fight becomes a shooting.

Most gun owners are responsible people, just as are most drivers. But we still have a lot of driving fatalities, sometimes from aggressive behavior, sometimes from poor decisions, but most of the time it's operator error.

And, your insightful comment about criminals getting guns regardless of the laws is absolutely correct. When my home was burglarized, the only things stole were my guns, a shot gun and a .306. It's not as if international arms dealers are walking around in Southeast Washington. Law abiding citizens and law bending gun dealers are where most of the illegal guns come from, be it directly or indirectly, think Columbine or VA Tech if you want an example. Add concealed carriers into those situations and all you get is more risk and more confusion.

Was Buf., Now Was. @8:15 You raise an interesting question; how many kids DO you know that have been shot in their own homes because their parents own guns? How many fatalities? Compare that number with the number of kids who DIED because their parents have BATHTUBS. All the BS the media provides regarding citizens getting hurt or killed by RESPONSIBLE gun owners is based on a small percentage of a smaller percentage of incidents. Fortunately for the gun control lobby, most of this country learns about firearms from television dramas. Ignorance and fear are great tools for those who would infringe upon our rights. A stupid and frightened pupulace is an easily controlled populace. You and MildlyMisanthropic must really eat that Kool-Aid up.

Besides the few exceptions, people who are willing to carry have permits and know and respect gun laws.

@ Carry every day

"Frankly, I would love to off a few scumbags ..."

Wow. Nice thought. Who made you God that you're so superior you have the right to murder someone?

I just can't get worked up about non-criminals carrying guns legally.

People who hate guns feel they have the right, the duty, to keep anyone from carrying them. It's like Catholics, who oppose birth control, wanting to ban people from carrying a condom in their pocket. At some point minding your own business may be a good idea.

@DC Guy
Cripes, ligten up, already.
A little defensive are we?

If you got your head out of your butt *crap*, you may have gotten the joke.

Have a nice day!!!

For all the posters who say that this will turn into a wild west, or arguments will turn into shootouts, could you post some statistics that show this?

Since the majority of the states allow conceal carry shouldnt there be hundreds of thousands of shootings happening everyday?

Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self defense. Most of the time they are not fired.

I ride the green line every day, so have to vote "Yes".

Knowing that the people are carrying guns on them,will not effect my decision to ride the train. It is at lease one person on the train that I ride everyday with some form of weapon already on them from a pocket knife to mace or maybe even a gun.

To answer MildlyMisanthropic's question as to how the police tell the good guys from the bad guys; they don't even try until everybody has put their guns down and their hands up. Proper training teaches a licensed gun carrier how to act following use of their weapon. In fact, those who carry legally fear the legal and civil ramifications of using their weapon far more than they fear their oppressor; that is why pulling a gun is not a decision made rashly.

"If you got your head out of your butt *crap*, you may have gotten the joke."

Sorry, I missed the joke.

No, that would be placing myself in serious danger. How dumb would that be? You never know when something may occur to set someone off, or even what caused them to go off. At which point, me and a lot of other passengers would be dead, causing a vTech of mass transit. It would show a lack of self-preservation to get on a train with someone who has a gun with or without a concealed license because some people just don't care about others.

Re: MM @ 9:15 -
Not playing God. Just pointing out that there is rage, even among CCW holders, but it is tempered by reason and investment. I don't murder because I fear prosecution; I don't murder because I am not a murderer. I carry because of my investment in family (wife, kids, home), education, and hard work climbing the employment ladder. I didn't get where I am today just to be the dead victim of a thug wanting money for a fix, or a gangbanger with a chip on his shoulder. I wasn't killed in the jungles of Panama in 89, or Iraq in 91, and I will make every effort not to be killed in the streets or subway tunnels of DC.

Again, my weapon will only appear when I am in immediate peril. If I feel the robber will not shoot, then my wallet will be handed over, and the thugs will never know how close they came.

CCW holders are not vigilantes or wannabe cops; they are folks who want to protect their own.

If I answer the question, then No.

However there is more to the poll question which makes me indifferent leaning toward no. The no part is mostly on the implementation. If Amtrak does not go with the measure the GOP stuck in to the bill, then Amtrak would not get the money. However no additional funding will be given to implement security for the costly measure. It's a lose-lose situation for Amtrak.

I was under the impression that the question was targeted towards Metro trains. I also ride Amtrak trains quite a lot. How in the world would anyone know whether a person is carrying a gun or not? At the stations I board and exit, they never do a security check.

@ Carry Every Day

"Frankly, I would love to off a few scumbags, but, the punks, AND YOU, are not worth me drawing my weapon, and then losing it forever in the investigation."

Typical gun nut. Horrifying to know that the only reason you're not killing people is because you don't want to lose your concealed carry permit.

I ride the Metro every day, and I'm so sure there are consealed guns on board, every day.

@MildlyMisanthropic,

Okay, then, let's just outlaw driving because the minority of the people who are bad drivers and cause accidents ruin it for the majority.

Come on. This will turn into a police state if people like this have their way.

Hi all --

Let me throw in a local angle: the Virginia Railway Express recently decided to reverse its policy and allow passengers to carry firearms on trains, including concealed weapons if a weapon holder has a proper permit, according to Fredericksburg's Free Lance-Star newspaper (more on that story here). Any thoughts on that?

@ Carry every day 10:02 AM

"Re: MM @ 9:15 -
Not playing God. Just pointing out that there is rage, even among CCW holders"

Just what America needs, more rage, and now it's pack'n heat. From the people who brought you uninformed morons loosing their minds at town hall meetings, comes "Death List: Urban Warrior." He's pack'n heat, but he's afraid to use it ... unless he's pushed too far ... and that's the mistake society is about to make. Coming soon to a neighborhood near you! So watch out!

TH
"If Amtrak does not go with the measure the GOP stuck in to the bill, then Amtrak would not get the money. However no additional funding will be given to implement security for the costly measure. It's a lose-lose situation for Amtrak."

The bill does not allow people to carry concealed, it allows people to check unloaded, locked guns. Just like an airline

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/senate-votes-to-ok-guns-on-amtrak/

The same way I wouldn't board a bus/train with folks who knowingly had knives with them is the same way that I wouln't condone the idea of gun totting riders...It's just not a smart idea considering the unpredictabilty of folks...little ire and folks are ready to cock up and raise arms -- no, not a good idea...in an environment of perceived great concealed weapon laws or otherwise.

Loving It , 10:42 AM

"Come on. This will turn into a police state if people like this have their way."

I used driving as an example of human behavior. Cars are built to transport people and things. Guns are designed to kill people and animals. There is a difference and I think any rational adult is aware there is no slippery slope between gun control and driving.

I would always assume that criminals have guns wherever they are, including the trains.

@ MildlyMisanthropic,

I disagree. For instance, look at the smoking ban. Outlawing smoking in buildings and restaurants (which I understand), to outlawing it in your own home (if attached to another home, which is also somewhat understandable) to bills out there to outlawing it outside because kids shouldn't have to witness people smoking and it somehow pollutes the breathable air of people far enough away that they cannot smell it or see the smoke? I would quote that, but I can't remember who said that was the reason. People can make a case for slippery slopes anywhere they look, and with the amount of government control that the left advocates rather than the assertion of freedom and personal responsibility that the right does, I feel like the left would be the group of the two that would be more likely to turn the US into a police state.

@ MM - It aint "more" rage, it is already there. The 'heat packer' (like reading your comments - you never use the same words twice) is simply pointing out that we all have our frustrations every day, and we don't settle them by acting out.

As long as one of the Amtrak passangers isn't Joe Biden, yes I would...that's guy's the definition of a loose cannon.

@DC Guy - I am well aware of that, however my statement stands. Amtrak position is that they would need additional funding to implement security due to this request from Congress.

@ I got rage too, 12:11 pm

"(like reading your comments - you never use the same words twice)"

That's because I'm hastily writing them myself, rather than pulling them from some talking points posted on a neocon website.

I've gotten on a train and a man's gun on his belt became uncovered in front of me. I was startled in such a restricted place. He quickly covered it with his shirt.

@ MildlyMisanthropic

More states have allowed conceal carry than ever in our history. It started in 1987 in florida. The Castle doctine has passed in many states. yet we dont see people just start shooting it out.

Gun free zones are criminal protection zones.

@CCW and Smart Benefits Holder 8:58 AM:

In fact, I'm not disagreein' with you - just pointing out to both sides of the argument that those carrying guns more-or-less openly on the Metro are more likely to depend on guns to earn a living (whether it's as a thug or as a security office) than "ordinary citizens," whatever that means. I do slightly disagree about thugs always wanting to be low profile - in over 25 years of riding Metro, I've seen a number of oral confrontations between thugs that ended up as fist fights, wrestling matches on the floor of the Metro car, and/or both participants getting thrown off. I've also seen a few examples over that period of what I'd characterize as thug types openly carrying guns in the waistbands of their pants, unnoticed by Metro personnel and clearly unperturbed about the possibility of getting caught. I guess my point is that the question is a hypothetical, but the reality is that it's already happening. Yes, I expect they (and anyone else who wasn't a security officer) are more discreet when riding in cars carrying Metro police personnel -- but how often does that happen? On the rush hour Red, Orange and Blue lines, not often.

@TH

Amtrak allowed it before 9/11.

What has changed? Also these guns are check luggage. As a gun owner I can tell them, as the laws says, and have the gun checked in unloaded and locked, or I can not tell them and run the risk of loseing my right to own a gun by breaking the law.

This is not like a drivers license, it get suspended for a time. In gun ownership when you lose that right, it never comes back. We know that and are careful not to lose it.

@Julia

If you saw a guy with a gun and he is somewhere were they are banned, you should let the conductor know.

I am a gun owner, and if I see someone with a gun where they shouldnt be, I will let the proper people know.

And as all the anti gun, fear mongers get on here about this issue. The poll came up because Amtrak has to allow people transport unloaded, locked gun in checked luggage.

So you came on here to say how unsafe you will feel knowing that those unloaded and locked guns are on the train.

The issue came up because VRE is now allowing people to carry concealed weapons on their commuter trains. Nothing to do with Amtrak.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/senate-votes-to-ok-guns-on-amtrak/

September 16, 2009, 5:24 pm
Senate Votes to O.K. Checked Guns on Amtrak

By Bernie Becker

The Senate voted on Wednesday to allow Amtrak passengers to carry unloaded and locked handguns in checked baggage
------------------------------

the question is "Would you ride a train if you knew passengers had guns on board"

If it is about VRE, then it should ask about carrying guns.

Try this:
The Feds who rate the full transit subsidy benefit should be able to opt for a CCW (at their expense, no additional impact to the taxpayer).

Not only would there be less crime crime during the daily commutes, there would be less stupid crap pulled in the workplace by clueless supervisors, and no more back-to-back-to-back meetings.

Yeah, I know, what fantasy world I live in.

I voted No. I voted No. I just had this same conversation with my co-workers last Monday. Taser’s guns without guns with bullets are a better choice on the Metro. Because an innocent rider can get hit by a bullet that was meant for the other person who may have a gun. DC Police aren’t sharp shooters and they all don’t have 20/20 vision just because they don’t wear glasses.

It would clearly be an unacceptable decision for metro to grant permission for ordinary citizens to carry firearms aboard metro. Even with that said commuters carry legal and illegal weapons of all sorts daily without any oversight. Finally I wouldn't want any trigger happy passenger putting my daughters life in danger by having a shoot out in a crowded train